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Separate Marriage and State by Waffle-Wizard Separate Marriage and State by Waffle-Wizard
Stamp template that I probably use too much by :iconabfc:~Abfc

Somewhat inspired by Tailsteak, who worded it much better than I ever could: [link]

Now, I realize that everybody hates people who think like this, but frankly I'm just sick and tired of everybody on both sides of the aisle whining about "legalizing gay marriage."

Here's a big ol' fact that people just don't seem to get: marriage is a religious act. If we try to get the Feds to enforce its legalization, isn't that essentially controlling the church through the state?

Sure, the government can legalize a civil union, but nobody seems to care when they can yell about their pastor at church not wanting to hook up to guys or two girls.

Well, you guys need to suck it up. It's not a governmental decision. Stop being babies and take it up with the guys who actually decide this stuff, whether that be the guy who owns your small community-run mosque or the freaking Pope.

The government is legally unable to do anything. It's something called "Separation of church and state," and it was designed not to protect the government from religious interference but to protect the churches (of all faiths) from the government deciding what's holy, what God wants, and what priests should have to do. That means if you call your local representative because your pastor refuses to marry you for a religious reason, you're going to do nothing but stir up a whole heap of trouble that won't solve anything.

In essence, YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE POLITICS BEHIND A LEGALLY NON-POLITICAL DEBATE

And for those of you who think that the government should enforce acceptance of this kind of thing, I want you to really look at your definition of bigotry and religious oppression, because no matter who you're asking it's totally backwards. NEWSFLASH: this country was founded specifically BECAUSE the government of the motherland was oppression their religious beliefs, and the laws were written specifically so nobody would have to suffer from that oppression. Congratulations, crybabies, you have killed America!

Now let's see how many people accuse me of being homophobic and oppressive.
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:iconilovewheatley:
ilovewheatley Featured By Owner Apr 30, 2015  Hobbyist General Artist
But then atheists also shouldn't be allowed to get married. If they can get married, so can gay people. Sure religious people should be allowed to turn down doing religious ceremonies for gay couples, but they don't have to. If they're not being married under a religion or going through the ceremony, then its got nothing to do with religion. 
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:icontilly-tallies:
TILLY-TALLIES Featured By Owner Jan 25, 2015  Student Digital Artist
!211 . // B^ )  KP


booty wweed 
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:iconbeespoke:
Beespoke Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2015  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Christianity supports gay relationships so not sure what your argument is about here
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:iconfcu777:
FCU777 Featured By Owner Jan 10, 2015  Student Filmographer
You know the world is full of hypocrisy. And by the way, I do believe that marriage is created by God (and it is), and yes, the bleeping politicians do not define this union, only God does.

Don't mind some of the deviants below me, they have nothing better to do than run their mouths.
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:iconkingrievous:
KINGRIEVOUS Featured By Owner Oct 2, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I like Star Wars. :)
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:iconkomatsuzaki-xingqi:
Komatsuzaki-Xingqi Featured By Owner Nov 8, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I like Star Wars too. 
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:iconkingrievous:
KINGRIEVOUS Featured By Owner Nov 10, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
icon: Tap and run -star-wars 
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:iconkfcnyancat:
Kfcnyancat Featured By Owner Aug 21, 2014
This is WHY Gay Marriage should be legal.  I believe that people should face consequences for their sins instead of police-states and tax-collectors preventing them from facing them.
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:iconfurrykits1:
Furrykits1 Featured By Owner Aug 18, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Wait, so basically religion controls marriage?
I thought that the Government controls it?
So you must be Christen and have your marriage in a Church and be blessed by God even though you are marriying because you love the person, and not the religion?
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:iconaceking90:
aceking90 Featured By Owner Jul 13, 2014
Marriage is actually a form of property exchange.
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:iconkatrinahood:
katrinahood Featured By Owner Apr 5, 2014  Student Digital Artist
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree. Marriage is not religious institution.
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:iconok-we-get:
Ok-we-get Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2013
Not all marriages are chirstian 
What about neo-pagan religions? 

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:iconkegger98:
Kegger98 Featured By Owner Nov 21, 2013
So true. We should also tell people who complain about there periods that it's a religious thing. Same goes for people who complain about shellfish, clothing, sex.
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:iconelidy:
Elidy Featured By Owner Oct 13, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
religion only defines "holy matrimony"  

marriage, because it involved legal documents, is defined by the government
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:iconmaster-of-the-boot:
Master-of-the-Boot Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2012  Hobbyist Writer
But certain religions lobby their interests which get enforced by politicians
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Hidden by Commenter
:iconagentkay004:
AgentKay004 Featured By Owner Jun 19, 2014  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I know this is an old comment, but this is the most ridiculous statement here. The other comments are silly being all pro-gay, but being Native American myself, I find your generalization of Natives very misleading and quite frankly, offensive, that you will bunch us all together as if we all supported these nonsense.
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:icontodmanie:
TodManie Featured By Owner Aug 2, 2014  Hobbyist Writer
I'm not sorry that you don't understand the word "some".
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:iconrebukedpariah:
RebukedPariah Featured By Owner Jul 11, 2012
Your forgetting all the rights you get when your married. If it were truly a religious institution no one would really care. But since it does involve the government it does need to be for everyone.
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:icontoxic-pocky:
Toxic-Pocky Featured By Owner Jun 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Marriage is both a religious and legal institution.

I'd have no problem if I could a judge could wed my wife and I because I hate Christianity.
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:iconkingrievous:
KINGRIEVOUS Featured By Owner Oct 2, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Uhh, you-......You're eyes are bleeding.
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:iconriza-izumi:
Riza-Izumi Featured By Owner May 30, 2012
This is why religion should be illegal, all of the Christ-cunts think the whole fucking world belongs to them.
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:iconkegger98:
Kegger98 Featured By Owner Feb 4, 2014
Wow dude, that's uncalled for.
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:iconsaphoto:
saphoto Featured By Owner Apr 24, 2012
Marriage is about kids, do you really think the government gives a shit about love?
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:iconkingrievous:
KINGRIEVOUS Featured By Owner Oct 2, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Uhh, no. Marriage is not about having children.
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:icondexter96:
Dexter96 Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2012
Here in Canada, gay marriage is legal all throughout the country, I haven't seen any church that has objected to marrying gay people, and basically no one has a problem with the whole gay marriage thing.

Why can't it be that simple in the States?
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:icontoxic-pocky:
Toxic-Pocky Featured By Owner Jun 30, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Because there are too many idiots here for that to happen. :(
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:iconthe-designist:
the-designist Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2011
oh, and desperate attempt to inject religious control into the government as well as corporate greed is what's killing America, not people who think you should shut up already about how mighty your ego- I mean, religion is and how it supposedly should be the ruler of all because your ego- I mean, god supposedly says so.
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2011
Oh, also, congratulations for assuming that I kiss the Pope's ass, i.e. the ass of the man who I laugh off the stage every time his name is spoken.
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:iconthe-designist:
the-designist Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2011
Then you should understand how embarrassing you make yourself look in the eyes of others. Nice going.
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:iconthe-designist:
the-designist Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2011
marriage was invented by pagans, not christians, morons. stop crying that christians should decide what happens to it because you "own" it... because you don't. and before you try the asspull defense that you mean general religions, keep in mind that only christians and your abrahamic buddies are butthurt over homosexuality- other religions don't cry as much about gay people, if at all.
So stop trying to give all the power over marriage to christians under the guise of "religion owns it!" because- news flash!- christians aren't the only religion, and other religions will disagree with you. And why yes, you sound homophobic, and no, i'm not a crybaby for seeing how desperate you are to french kiss your pope's ass.

tl;dr christians don't own marriage either, and most religions aren't as homophobic as you abrahamic fucks, so shut up about having the power to kick gays out of marriage.

Oh, and I'm agnostic. That is, I believe that there is a god, but I also believe that you're shitting all over his image for the sake of your personal opinions and butthurt.
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner Dec 18, 2011
First of all, congratulations on picking up my subtle series of clues that implied that I am, in fact, a Christian as opposed to anybody else! I'm sure that absolutely nobody would have guessed from only my extremely long description which used phrases like "church," "pastor," and "priest!"

Secondly, congratulations for demonstrating your open-mindedness and your ability to see through BS by reading said description and gleaning from it that I am anti-gay marriage and that THAT is the reason I made this stamp! The fact that you are totally wrong only urges forward that you are extremely good at telling me something about myself which I in my 20 years of living with myself have never noticed!

And thirdly, non-sarcastically, congratulations on getting from my distinction between "civil union" and "religious union" that I believe only religious unions should be legal, because in doing so you have demonstrated a complete inability to do anything but bitch about imaginary problems to people you don't know and have never met before. Congratulations for thinking that my pulling the "separation of church and state" card was entirely geared toward destroying government control in favor of religious control. Congratulations for demonstrating your ignorance, insecurity, and closed-mindedness.
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:iconthe-designist:
the-designist Featured By Owner Dec 19, 2011
Congratulations on getting massively butthurt.

After reading several of your defensive posts, I realized what point you were actually trying to get across. But man, you are horribly bad at delivering your points.

I've read the entire paragraph, and honestly, you need to take some extra classes for reading/writing comprehension, because all your essay gets across is that you are butthurt about law telling your biased religion to bugger off when it comes to human rights, but you are trying to generalize religion and claim you're totally not homophobe as shields, but it just looks all too desperate to make it look like you're totally not butthurt. What little actual points there were were drowned in butthurt and whining, and it became hard to tell what the hell you were talking about at points due to said whining. Seriously, look at your own rant, you look like the "goddamn crybabies" you claim people questioning your intentions are.

And you only got even more butthurt, raving in a paragraph containing no actual points other than insulting and over-emphasized sarcasm. Congratulations on making yourself look like a sensitive moron. No, really, it's such an achievement.

"you have demonstrated a complete inability to do anything but bitch about imaginary problems to people you don't know and have never met before"

I smell hypocrite.

"Congratulations for demonstrating your ignorance, insecurity, and closed-mindedness."

Even more hypocrisy. Of course, that's the trademark of easily-offended christians, so that goes without saying.

As it is quite the feat, congratulations yet again on making yourself look like a stereotypical raving bibliophile idiot. Seriously, learn how to write without getting massively butthurt.
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:iconusotaku013666:
USOtaku013666 Featured By Owner Nov 3, 2011
Last I checked it was a legal contract.
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:iconsquibley:
Squibley Featured By Owner Oct 21, 2011  Student General Artist
98% agree with you.
I 100% agree with you on the politicians part.
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:iconsaylisk:
Saylisk Featured By Owner Aug 15, 2011  Student Artist
Oooooh, you're going to get a lot of "It's a FACT that YOUAR WRAWNG!"'s for sharing your opinion. :nod: You'll notice that one pro-gay marriage stamps, there's lots of "OHEMJEE DIS IS SO RAIGHT", but if you put a stamp about it like this that's against gay marriage, the hate cometh.
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:icon1upyoshi:
1UPYoshi Featured By Owner Nov 4, 2012  Student Digital Artist
:iconthisplz:
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:iconsaylisk:
Saylisk Featured By Owner Nov 5, 2012  Student Artist
Oh stahp it, dahling!
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:iconshinedust:
shinedust Featured By Owner Jul 5, 2011
The fact is though, you're wrong.

Marriage was never a religious act, it was an act of property, men bought and sold women for a price--today the ring your future-husband proposes with is considered to be the same as a dowry would have been to our ancestors. Marriage isn't even about love in some places today, there are still arranged marriages and there are still opium brides (often children sold to pay a debt to a drug lord and then used as sex slaves, and still they are brides because of their monetary value)!

The fact is, you can go have a marriage in a church, but it means nothing to the government (or for the benefits you would gain from a marriage) unless you get a marriage license first from the government. It's really that simple. You don't get marriage licenses from your priest/rabbi/pastor/minister--you have to go to a court house, fill out some paper work, and pay roughly $40 for a piece of paper that tells everyone you're married and can receive marital privileges via the state. Yes, religious ceremonies have nothing to do with the government, but that's because (at least in America) state is separate from religion. Every religious place of worship has the right to deny their sanctuary to be the place of someone's marriage--some Catholic churches won't allow a Catholic wedding to someone in their church that isn't part of their congregation (even if they are themselves Catholic). Religious places are private institutions though, so by law, they have the right to do that. The government as a body that is meant to protect all of its citizens, however, should not be held to the ideology of the many different religions in America.

Government marriage =/= religious ceremony.
Marriage =/= love (all the time) & started as a business (historically speaking).
:thumbsup:
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2011
So what you're saying is that because in some parts of the world "marriage" is done for selfish reasons that marriage is not a religious act nor one of love, and therefore my argument, which agrees with yours, is invalid.
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:iconshinedust:
shinedust Featured By Owner Jul 6, 2011
No. My statement is that marriage started as A, continues to be A with mild tweaks to make it seem more about a relationship instead of about property. My statement is also that it was never about religion and is only about religion for those who make it about religion--which isn't everyone. & finally that a religious ceremony =/= marriage.
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:iconthe-designist:
the-designist Featured By Owner Dec 6, 2011
dude, it's a fundamentalist. their ultimate skill is plucking out only what they want to hear and masturbate with, then throw the rest.
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:iconseitar:
Seitar Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Marriage is a Gov't thing. Because the GOVERNMENT is the one who gives the 1000s of benefits to married couples. Not to mention the existence of Civil Marriage.
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2011
You bring up an interesting point, but in so doing an important question: why doesn't the government just provide those benefits to the homoromantic civil marriages and not touch the religious marriages? No one can stop them from recognizing gay or lesbian civil marriages.
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:iconseitar:
Seitar Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Well Places of Worship always reserve the right to deny marriage to anyone they wish ^^ That's always how it's been :) Of course, some places of worship DO want to marry gay couples- they should be allowed to, as well.

Noone should even try to force Places of Worship to marry couples they don't wish to- a bill like that would never pass. Civil Marriages are all (most) people ask for :)
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:iconseitar:
Seitar Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2011  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Civil Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Religious places should not be forced to perform marriages for couples their faith doesn't believe in, but religion has no place in Civil Marriages.
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner Jun 17, 2011
Right, so as I was trying but obviously failed to communicate, the government can decide the laws on civil marriage but can not on religion. Tailsteak once suggested that the two would probably ultimately end up being completed in the same ceremony, so religious marriages and civil marriages could happen simultaneously, which I think is fair. And it provides the alternative that you can be civilly married without being religiously married, and vice versa. So it's a nice little compromise.
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:icondrunkpimp3000:
drunkpimp3000 Featured By Owner May 20, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
You're sentiments are homophobic and oppressive. If a few people of the same sex getting married killed America, I don't think it's worth fighting for.
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:iconwaffle-wizard:
Waffle-Wizard Featured By Owner May 20, 2011
Oh, wow. I knew posting stamps like this would eventually attract criticism from people who didn't read a word that I said, but I expected you to at least be able to tell the difference between homophobia and honestly not caring either way.

Not a single word I breathed was homophobic or oppressive in any way. In fact, it's the opposite: if what you're saying is that politicians should be able to force churches to recognize same-sex marriage, then you've officially announced that you don't care about freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or anything that the only nations in the world worth living in stand for.

And saying I'm homophobic is a big ol' pile of laughs. I have TWO friends who are straight, bringing the total to THREE people I know and care about who would refuse sex from someone of the same gender. Everyone else I know is bi or gay, and you know what? We get along just fine. Half the time when we're talking about the politics behind gay marriage we even agree.

The dividing line between us is that I'm religious and about 99% of them are not, and even then none of them think that politicians should have a say in how a church operates. And if they did they would be HUGE hypocrites. Much like yourself.
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:icondrunkpimp3000:
drunkpimp3000 Featured By Owner May 20, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Okay, so you aren't homophobic. For the sake of gay couples who want to get married sometime this decade, I ask that you don't vote for propositions or initiatives banning it. You can have that opinion that you disagree with it, but I don't think it's right for others to interfere with others lives like that. And churches don't have to marry anyone they don't want to. Gay couples if they want to can get a marriage certificate without setting foot in a church or meeting up with a priest. In states that allow marriage I never once heard of a church forced to perform a ceremony.

You may be accepting of gays, and you might have your own reasons for wanting to ban gay marriages (the harm of two men or women getting married I don't understand), but issues like this and adoption have been used by fundamentalists time and time again to oppress gay people.

So you can have you opinion, just don't intrude the opinion on others by banning it. Thank you.
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